When the Card Hits the Table: Navigating Uncomfortable Conversations
We've all been there, right? You’re in a conversation, feeling a bit out of your depth, and suddenly, *bam*, you throw down the “I’m just gonna shut this down” card. Yup, that’s what we’re diving into today—how easy it is to disengage when we feel inadequate or clueless. We're chatting about the art of courageous engagement, which is basically how to express ourselves without tossing someone else under the bus. It's all about taking a deep breath and owning our discomfort instead of slapping down a card that ends the conversation before it can even begin. So grab your favorite beverage and let's unravel this together—because, let’s face it, real growth happens when we lean into those awkward moments rather than run from them!
Takeaways:
- It's super easy to throw the card when we feel outmatched or insecure in a conversation, but it doesn't help anyone.
- Courageous engagement means expressing our views without shutting others down, leading to real dialogue instead of defensiveness.
- Recognizing when we play the card is key; awareness helps us transform our responses into more meaningful conversations.
- Admitting we don't know something can be an adventure that opens up new learning opportunities instead of shutting down the conversation.
Transcript
All right, that is now going.
Speaker A:Going with the clap.
Speaker B:The clapper.
Speaker A:The clapper.
Speaker A:Here we are.
Speaker A:I'm hearing something.
Speaker A:What is that?
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B:I'm moving around.
Speaker B:Oh, I don't know if that's.
Speaker B:I'm adjusting my.
Speaker A:Oh, that's my hearing aid.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:You have an aid of hearing.
Speaker A:I have an aid of hearing, yes, I do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's good.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:Let me turn these up so I can hear everybody.
Speaker A:I'm good here.
Speaker B:Yeah, you good there?
Speaker B:That's better.
Speaker C:I still feel way soft compared to the two of you.
Speaker B:Hang on a minute.
Speaker A:Let me.
Speaker A:Let me give you a little more game.
Speaker B:You're just an old Sophie, Riz.
Speaker A:All right, try it again.
Speaker A:Huh?
Speaker C:How's that?
Speaker C:That's soft.
Speaker A:There we go.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker B:You're going to get excited and blow us out anyway.
Speaker C:I'll come back here.
Speaker B:You got to pull the.
Speaker B:That's part of the musician thing.
Speaker B:When you get to hit that note, you come up, and then you come back in.
Speaker C:When you.
Speaker B:And when you want to get down low, you come in real close.
Speaker A:That's not.
Speaker A:To get me to fall asleep.
Speaker B:What's that?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right, so start our.
Speaker C:Got very white on the other side of the table.
Speaker A:Ready there?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Are we ready?
Speaker A:Here we go.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Wise Guys Podcast, where we unleash the unthinkable and step over the line to help us see things differently, shatter the norm, and stimulate new thinking.
Speaker A:Changing our worldview will change the world.
Speaker A:That's a given.
Speaker A:So, hi, I'm Mac, your host, and in this episode, we're going to deal with some blind spots that I think we might have.
Speaker A:As we navigate, maybe some uncomfortable conversations is usually when we pull this kind of stuff out, and especially ones that might, I don't know, question our beliefs or our norms.
Speaker A:Challenge some stuff when we get a little uncomfortable, but we need to learn how to navigate that stuff, you know, and it's not easy, and we haven't solved it, and we're not there yet, but I think we're.
Speaker A:We're working on it.
Speaker A:We hope you will, too.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Got my guys, man.
Speaker A:I got my guys.
Speaker C:Rev, I'm bringing my blind spots into the room tonight.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Can you see me?
Speaker A:Can you.
Speaker A:Can you see me?
Speaker C:Sometimes I can, sometimes I can't.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker A:Coach the.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hey, how's it going, guys?
Speaker B:I missed hanging out with you all.
Speaker A:I know, man.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker B:Glad to be back in the saddle again.
Speaker A:It's so Good to be back.
Speaker B:Without a doubt.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Here we are.
Speaker B:Hey there.
Speaker B:Hey.
Speaker B:Let me say hello to all of you beautiful, exotic cocktails out there.
Speaker B:We're waving at you.
Speaker C:Okay, my night's complete now.
Speaker B:Glad you are here.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Welcome, welcome.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is going to be fun.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:This episode.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I think growing.
Speaker B:Can I say it?
Speaker B:Throwing the card.
Speaker A:Throwing a card.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:We just love to flip.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's an explosion, but it could be.
Speaker A:It could be.
Speaker A:Yeah, it could be.
Speaker A:But anyway, you will get into that.
Speaker A:You might be going, what the heck are they talking about?
Speaker A:Well, we'll get to there.
Speaker A:I promise.
Speaker B:You'll know.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You will know what we're talking about when we get there.
Speaker B:You will have heard these.
Speaker A:All right, so it's time for words of wisdom.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Words of wisdom.
Speaker A:Here we go.
Speaker A:On a church sign somewhere.
Speaker A:All right, here it is.
Speaker A:A smooth sea never made a skillful sailor.
Speaker B:You know, I was really excited when I saw you put this in there because I actually have a shirt that says this on it.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I wear it to work out.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:And I love it because of.
Speaker B:Of what it means.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, working hard.
Speaker B:That's how, you know.
Speaker A:Well, yeah.
Speaker C:You know, I'd like to say I'm not the person I am today because of everything being smooth.
Speaker C:It's those rough moments where I had to dig to a deeper part of myself.
Speaker C:I'm grateful for.
Speaker C:Rough seas.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Tilto.
Speaker A:I don't know about either one of you guys, but when I was a kid, my grandfather had a cot.
Speaker A:So did we.
Speaker A:But we were.
Speaker A:We were kind of close to where he was.
Speaker A:We would go over there and he had one of those little tiny single sail, you know, flat, like little sailboats.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:He says, I've sailed one of those.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I know what you mean.
Speaker A:And, you know, it was.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was okay when you were sort of just gliding, right?
Speaker A:You know.
Speaker A:No, no, no, no.
Speaker A:Let's grab the wind and let's pull it, and let's tip the thing on end and even over.
Speaker A:That's way more fun.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Smooth seas, you know, never made a skillful sailor.
Speaker A:I think there's some great wisdom there, too.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Oh, that's true.
Speaker C:So we hope you rock your boat just a little bit.
Speaker A:I like that.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Rock the boat.
Speaker C:Dip the boat over.
Speaker A:Here we go.
Speaker A:These.
Speaker B:Was that the 70s?
Speaker B:Did we just get back to the 70s?
Speaker A:Yes, yes.
Speaker C:I went right to Broadway.
Speaker B:My wife, sit down.
Speaker C:You're rocking the boat.
Speaker A:Oh, God, these musicians.
Speaker A:What am I gonna do with them?
Speaker A:So, all right, here's the setup.
Speaker A:So throw in a card.
Speaker A:What does that mean?
Speaker A:What are we talking about here?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:We're not talking poker, are we?
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker B:Because you got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Here we go again.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:We're gonna run rabbit trails a ton tonight.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Sorry about that already.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, you're.
Speaker B:No, I'm not.
Speaker C:Coffee?
Speaker C:You've been drinking.
Speaker A:No, you're not.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker B:Throw the card between my musicians on.
Speaker A:The right and the left here.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:You know, I'm doomed.
Speaker A:All right, so how easy is it?
Speaker A:And I'm going to answer the question because it's kind of rhetorical.
Speaker A:It's really easy for us to throw the card.
Speaker A:And here's what we mean by that.
Speaker A:When it comes to a situation where we sort of feel inadequate or somebody's got an argument that's a little bit sharper than ours or got a little bit more going for it, or we just don't even have an answer.
Speaker A:Maybe we're just ignorant of the facts or the context, and we just want to get either out of the conversation or we want to get our way.
Speaker A:That ever been any of you out there?
Speaker A:Never been me.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Can't say that I've ever been there before.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So how do we exhibit courageous engagement?
Speaker A:Because what the card means is when you get to that place where you just got nothing else, okay.
Speaker A:For whatever reason, you throw the generalization card, and we're going to talk about some of those.
Speaker A:But this is what we mean, that we just want to end the conversation with the easy way out.
Speaker A:We just throw it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Just throw it out there.
Speaker A:And then we think we're done, you know?
Speaker A:And what does that mean for the person that we're talking to?
Speaker A:And really, what does that mean for you?
Speaker A:Because you really haven't.
Speaker A:It's still a calm sea.
Speaker A:Going back to our words of wisdom.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You haven't had to fight through it.
Speaker C:This whole podcast is really going to come into.
Speaker C:To question, under to play here, because we're asking people to go to the edge, go to the inside edge and come to the.
Speaker C:The edge of your understanding.
Speaker C:You're inevitably.
Speaker C:If you're growing, you're going to come to the edge of.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:And that's usually when the God card or the card of any kind gets played.
Speaker C:I need to stop this, because I'm so uncomfortable with this edge Right.
Speaker C:So I need to run back to the center and I may throw something.
Speaker C:A brick.
Speaker C:Sometimes it's a brick, not just a card.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker C:It's like, I need to end this right now because I am so out of my comfort zone.
Speaker B:You know, I'm glad.
Speaker B:I'm glad you said the words God card, because we're going to talk mostly about that tonight.
Speaker B:Yeah, but you make.
Speaker B:You had me realize, like, there's probably other cards you could throw.
Speaker B:Like, not just a God card.
Speaker B:You could always push, like.
Speaker B:Well, they.
Speaker B:Whoever they are, they said this.
Speaker B:So you're gonna have to.
Speaker C:Everybody's saying everybody, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That's interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're gonna use that as some.
Speaker B:Examples, but we're gonna.
Speaker B:Mostly about the God card is what we're talking about.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think we do it more often when we're talking, because who gets to argue with God?
Speaker A:And again, we'll.
Speaker A:We'll get to this a little bit more depth, but this is the kind of thing we're talking about.
Speaker A:So think about it in your own life, about the times.
Speaker A:Maybe just take a deep breath right now and think about maybe a conversation today or yesterday or last week where maybe you did the same thing or somebody did it to you.
Speaker B:I heard it today.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I hear it almost every day, but.
Speaker B:But I did hear it today.
Speaker C:My family growing up.
Speaker C:And you didn't question it.
Speaker C:It was the mom card.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, there's that.
Speaker C:Mom said it.
Speaker C:Don't argue with it.
Speaker B:Or dad.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, her dad said this.
Speaker B:Her mom.
Speaker A:There are certain things where it just makes for, you know, a better social environment, especially in a family.
Speaker B:There's no questioning it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:When you.
Speaker B:When you do that.
Speaker A:Well, you should shut it down is what you do.
Speaker A:So why do we do it?
Speaker C:Why do we do it?
Speaker C:There's probably a thousand reasons.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I have to ask the question.
Speaker C:Why do I do it?
Speaker C:It's because usually fear is involved.
Speaker C:I'm afraid of something.
Speaker C:I'm embarrassed, maybe to expose myself.
Speaker C:But why do you do it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You could feel threatened, you know, and you want to kind of protect yourself.
Speaker A:Safe face.
Speaker B:Yeah, right, Right.
Speaker B:That's another way to look at it.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker C:It's a way to also avoid intimacy.
Speaker C:Oh, this is getting too intimate, too close.
Speaker C:I'm going to keep you at bay.
Speaker C:So I throw the card to keep you at a distance.
Speaker A:Too vulnerable.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We're going a place that I don't want to be that vulnerable.
Speaker A:But, but, you know, you bring up a good point, Rev.
Speaker A:Let's say that starts to happen.
Speaker A:There's other ways to deal throwing a card.
Speaker A:It doesn't mean if you get into an environment or conversation or something that makes you feel uncomfortable from a, From a vulnerability standpoint, hey, there's ways to say, man, I just don't think I want to go there right now.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I'm not ready, I'm not prepared.
Speaker A:But that's way different than just trying to push up the hand and throw something out there that tries to either intimidate or to belittle the other person or to just shut them off.
Speaker C:What does that require of us?
Speaker C:It requires authenticity and honesty and vulnerability and all those things where I think in the mystery where God is found or where I find my divine self.
Speaker C:No, no.
Speaker C:It's just easier to stop it, to shut it down and to push away than it is to go, I really don't know.
Speaker C:We're not comfortable with the words.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:Or just comfortable with the words.
Speaker C:I'm feeling uncomfortable right now.
Speaker C:I need to step back for a second.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:That, you know, that's a good point, Rev.
Speaker B:And I just want to say that I look at the.
Speaker B:I don't know in a different perspective.
Speaker B:Like, to me, that's like an adventure.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not, I'm not upset.
Speaker B:I don't feel less than.
Speaker B:Because I don't know, it's like, wow, okay, I'm gonna get to experience or learn something new.
Speaker B:Like, that's really cool.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker C:Do most people do that?
Speaker B:I hope so.
Speaker B:If not, I'm encouraging them to do that.
Speaker A:This is what we want, you know, and you know, we're also.
Speaker B:But no, the answer is no.
Speaker B:Most people don't.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And again, there's reasons why they don't.
Speaker A:Because you're vulnerable.
Speaker A:You open yourself up to somebody possibly countermind manding.
Speaker A:What you giving you a different perspective?
Speaker A:That depends on how they handled it.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Could belittle you, could make you feel.
Speaker C:So could it be that there's a lack of trust?
Speaker C:I don't trust you to be safe with my authenticity.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm going to be vulnerable out here and you might use it against me.
Speaker C:So I'm not going to go there.
Speaker B:And there's also great point.
Speaker B:Like, that is a great point.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But there's also a, A childlike quality, some of this.
Speaker B:Like when you're a child.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You don't want to be the one in class that is considered dumb or you don't have like common sense or any kind of wisdom or anything.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So you might not say something or you try to avoid it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We do this as adults.
Speaker B:I mean, it's the same.
Speaker B:It's the same feeling.
Speaker B:It's the same thing.
Speaker B:I don't want them to know that I don't know this or that I'm feeling vulnerable.
Speaker B:I don't want them to know that.
Speaker B:So that's why you throw the sarcastic thing.
Speaker B:Get you out it, get you off.
Speaker C:Some days at work, I want to do just like I did in middle school.
Speaker C:I want to like slide down underneath the desk and hope that the teacher doesn't see me and nobody calls on me.
Speaker C:I've got the little middle school kid living in my head, in my heart.
Speaker C:Some days.
Speaker B:Don't make eye contact, man.
Speaker B:For sure to get called on at that.
Speaker B:At that point.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker A:Don't throw an eraser across the room either.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Been known to do that.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Well, one, one, one last thing.
Speaker B:I mean, I mean, I think why we do it is, you know, we all have biases, right.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:And this will.
Speaker B:It could just affirm our biases.
Speaker B:And maybe you don't want to try to.
Speaker B:Maybe you don't want to debate that.
Speaker B:You just want them to accept it.
Speaker B:So if you throw that card out, then they, in your mind, they can't question it.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker B:You're meaning your bias.
Speaker B:They can't question that.
Speaker C:Which is a really beautiful, mature place to go.
Speaker C:I'm just gonna own I have a bias.
Speaker C:So you're not gonna convince me differently.
Speaker C:This is the truth, that I'm the only truth.
Speaker C:So let's stop talking.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Just own it.
Speaker C:That's okay.
Speaker C:It was honest.
Speaker A:Of course, how that person might react to that.
Speaker A:It'll be interesting to see what happens on the other side when you're that honest.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But yeah, you know, of.
Speaker A:It has to also do with just your self image, you know, and whether or not you feel confident enough, like Stu says to say, I don't know.
Speaker A:When you feel confident enough to give the other person grace and give them some bandwidth without getting defensive and without feeling like, you better shut this thing down right now or it's going to get out of control.
Speaker B:I'm going to keep reminding everybody out there, guys, when.
Speaker B:When you don't know.
Speaker B:It's an adventure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You are an adventurer.
Speaker A:Look at it that way.
Speaker A:That's a great way to, I think, to look at it.
Speaker C:And there will be people that will expose or Belittle your I don't know.
Speaker C:But I'm telling you, within the I don't know is the mystery, which is the power of God.
Speaker C:That on the other side of you being uncomfortable will be victorious.
Speaker C:Your willingness to stay in the I don't know whether God, somebody likes it or doesn't like it out in the world is going to be your greatest achievement, your greatest success.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:I love that, Rev.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker C:No, it's just easier to have my confirmation bias and just have conversations that validate my bias.
Speaker A:Let's just move on.
Speaker B:That's the easy way out.
Speaker A:We don't do that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:That's not us.
Speaker A:Well, here.
Speaker B:Here's another way to look at it.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:You're helping somebody else to.
Speaker B:It's okay for them to do this as well if they see you doing it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So you're like.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:You're being like an inspiration for others.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I think they may not say that in that moment, but I guarantee you they're going to do it because you did it.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:You know, you doing it gives others.
Speaker C:Permission, and it may not even be the person you're engaged to.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's somebody who's watching who goes.
Speaker C:That Coach Stu, he was really okay with.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And the guy didn't respond.
Speaker C:But look at how cool he is.
Speaker C:He's got more strength.
Speaker C:I want to be more like Coach Stu.
Speaker B:According to my daughter, I'm the coolest.
Speaker B:Just so you know.
Speaker A:I say that all the time anyway.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I want to be disliked, but you're right.
Speaker B:And you know what I.
Speaker B:What I say quite frequently is, like, there's always somebody watching.
Speaker C:People are watching.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So when you do this to your point, Rev, somebody else may see it and not even know who you are, but they saw it happening, and then it inspired them to do it different.
Speaker C:Your willingness to be that vulnerable and authentic is changing the world.
Speaker B:So how cool is that?
Speaker B:I mean, you are.
Speaker B:That is the coolest.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:You're the coolest.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:I love Sage saying that.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right, well, listen.
Speaker A:So we've given some examples along the way here already.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But let's just call out so that you're going, oh, yeah, now I.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:That's the way that happens.
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker A:Let's talk a little bit about the way do it.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker A:The ways that it happens.
Speaker A:And Stu's already talked about the God card, so let's just Start with that, because that in my life anyway, or I think in a lot of people's lives, that's an easy card that gets thrown, because the minute you throw what we call the God card, it shuts things down, because who's arguing with God?
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:I mean, you know, if God said it, God did it, who am I?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That kind of thing.
Speaker A:So it starts there.
Speaker A:When you start to talk over spiritual things that are related to the divine, to God, the Bible, theology, whatever it might be.
Speaker A:You know, when you get to a sticking point, whatever that might be, it's so much easier just to go, well.
Speaker C:God said it and that's good enough.
Speaker A:Move on.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:You know, he just shuts the whole conversation down.
Speaker B:Even.
Speaker B:Even atheists fall victim to this.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I'm serious.
Speaker B:Because what are they going to say, right?
Speaker B:If you say, well, you know, can't.
Speaker B:Can't argue with God or the Bible said it, what am I going to say to you?
Speaker B:You know, because it's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, again, it's just.
Speaker A:It doesn't.
Speaker A:I don't know, it's way too simple.
Speaker A:Sue's already said this, but at the same time, it checks your brain out.
Speaker A:It doesn't cause you to get into conversation and to share.
Speaker A:Now, that needs a safe environment.
Speaker A:Okay, I agree.
Speaker A:And a lot of times that's why we do it, because we don't feel safe.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But, you know, this idea about the Bible says it.
Speaker A:I believe it.
Speaker A:That settles it.
Speaker A:Boy, there's not a whole lot of wiggle room there in.
Speaker C:Well, it doesn't just shut down the conversation externally.
Speaker C:What it's doing is it's shutting down the conversation within you when you get to that.
Speaker C:I don't want to have a conversation with my insecurity.
Speaker C:I don't want to have a conversation with the part of me that's afraid right now.
Speaker C:So let me just shut it down.
Speaker C:And that's not what God does.
Speaker C:God calls us God, by whatever definition you give it, has caused us to look deeply inward to those dark places, to those scary places.
Speaker C:The Bible, as the very authority that sometimes gets thrown out there, is challenging us to look at our crap.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker C:But not the God card and the Bible card are used to stop looking at my crap.
Speaker A:Well, that's my.
Speaker A:I think that's our whole point here, that the minute you throw that card, whatever card it might be, you've just shut down any possible good that can come from it.
Speaker A:And yes, maybe you've hunkered down and you've Protected yourself from any further conversation or exposure.
Speaker A:But boy, that to me is just like, it's boring.
Speaker C:Can the God card.
Speaker C:So the God card can be delivered verbally, but can it be delivered non verbally?
Speaker C:Oh, can I be arrogant and self righteous and then just show that with my body, my posture and my response without even saying the word God?
Speaker C:Absolutely, yes.
Speaker A:Oh, sure.
Speaker C:This, A wall goes up, I build a wall and we're no longer conversing.
Speaker C:So I'm still in the room.
Speaker C:I haven't run from it.
Speaker C:But boy, have I shut you out.
Speaker B:Have you ever seen anybody roll their eyes ever?
Speaker B:I mean, this is.
Speaker C:Anybody raise a teenage girl?
Speaker A:Well, body language is what you're talking about.
Speaker A:It's that.
Speaker A:It's that what they see, not what they hear.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker A:And so it's, it's out there.
Speaker A:It, you, you do it in all sorts of different ways.
Speaker A:And all we're saying is this.
Speaker A:Be aware.
Speaker A:Be aware that when you do it.
Speaker A:We try to be aware when we do it.
Speaker A:And then the next thing that you got to decide is what do I do about it when I catch myself doing it?
Speaker A:Okay, can you back up a little bit?
Speaker A:Can you, do you need to apologize?
Speaker A:Do you need to start the conversation again anew with a little more open, you know, handedness, whatever it might be?
Speaker A:Or maybe it's just.
Speaker A:Oh, man, I just screwed that one up.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I'm going to think about the next time, you know, I have a conversation.
Speaker A:I'm going to do better.
Speaker C:I love that visual of the open hand.
Speaker C:You know, I've accomplished way more in my life with an open hand than a closed fist and the, and any kind of card.
Speaker C:Sometimes it's an intellectual card, sometimes it's an age card.
Speaker C:I'm older than you, I'm your elder.
Speaker C:So do you just have to accept my truth?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker C:It's a closed fist that shuts down.
Speaker C:And I think the greatest wisdom has come from the, sometimes even the teenage girl who's rolling her eyes.
Speaker C:If I can listen.
Speaker C:Oh, there's something behind the eye roll that I maybe need to understand.
Speaker A:Right, Right.
Speaker C:But I shut it down because I'm the authority.
Speaker A:I'm the father, because I said so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's a father card that gets played all the time.
Speaker A:No, definitely.
Speaker A:Well, think about this.
Speaker A:In business, think about it.
Speaker A:If you're an employee, do you do it to coworkers?
Speaker A:Does your boss do it to you?
Speaker A:Do you as a manager do it to your, you know, to the people that you manage?
Speaker A:I Mean, I guarantee you it happens.
Speaker A:And it happens more frequently than you think it happens.
Speaker A:And what we're saying is raise your awareness level, because that's typically unproductive.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It typically doesn't help the scenario.
Speaker A:It might make you feel better if you're the one doing it or the other person feel better if they're the one doing it.
Speaker A:But it really doesn't accomplish any good or progressiveness or thought anything.
Speaker A:Creativity.
Speaker C:So how do you catch yourself?
Speaker C:Yeah, you gotta catch yourself.
Speaker C:And we're good at catching other people and playing that card to show.
Speaker C:Shut down the dialogue.
Speaker C:How do I catch myself taking a breath and go, okay, I'm having an internal reaction here.
Speaker C:Right now.
Speaker C:That's a wall going up.
Speaker A:Yeah, Right.
Speaker C:The hard thing is to take.
Speaker C:Quit building in that moment.
Speaker C:Take a breath and put your ears on.
Speaker B:You notice it at first.
Speaker B:I've gone through this exercise, so you notice, and then there's nothing you can do about it because the time has passed.
Speaker B:The next time you notice it a little quicker.
Speaker B:And then eventually it hits you before it.
Speaker B:You say it.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker B:And then you still don't make a change.
Speaker B:Yeah, but you're aware.
Speaker C:I'm aware.
Speaker C:I'm shutting you out.
Speaker B:Then finally you're like, okay, now it hits you quick enough.
Speaker B:And now, you know, like, okay, now I'm gonna make a decision to do it different so that it's kind of like a little.
Speaker B:For me, at least it's a little bit of a process.
Speaker B:Like practice.
Speaker B:Yeah, practice.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:You know, it.
Speaker B:Practice.
Speaker A:I'm gonna leave.
Speaker A:I'm leaving with this one last example before we take a little bit of a break, and then we'll be right back.
Speaker A:But how about this?
Speaker A:I see this happen around here.
Speaker A:And if you've got.
Speaker A:If your parents out there.
Speaker A:All right, I'm sure you've experienced this as well with.
Speaker A:With your kids.
Speaker A:And that's it.
Speaker A:You'll say something to the child, you know, you should have done that.
Speaker A:Why'd you do this?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:You know, let's talk about my bad.
Speaker A:And, you know, it's just.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:They throw it a bad.
Speaker A:My bad card.
Speaker A:There's a my bad card.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they think that that just solves.
Speaker C:The whole, I'm a loser, I'm rotten, I'm terrible.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Just a given.
Speaker A:Okay, let's move on.
Speaker A:You know, and you just.
Speaker A:Again, it's one.
Speaker A:It's one of those sayings.
Speaker A:It's one.
Speaker A:Attitudes of the mind and the heart.
Speaker A:That just doesn't Let you grow, it makes you hunker down.
Speaker C:Well, and sometimes it's the other way around.
Speaker C:It's the parent saying that, oh, I'm just a terrible, awful parent.
Speaker C:You just shut down that kid from maybe expressing some wisdom that you could be here.
Speaker A:Could be.
Speaker A:Yeah, we get it wrong all the time, don't we?
Speaker C:At least, at least twice in my life.
Speaker A:All right, so these were some examples we were talking about the way it's done, the card, throwing a card.
Speaker A:Why do we do it?
Speaker A:And I think we're going to take a little break and then we're going to come back with what are some, some more of the ways that it's done and maybe some ways to respond to that.
Speaker A:So we'll be right back.
Speaker A:Hang on.
Speaker A:So, yeah, so we got, we got a little bit more we can just throw here to finish off this.
Speaker A:Ways that it's done.
Speaker B:Categorical.
Speaker C:It's been rolling around.
Speaker B:I like.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:They're all kind of going around together, you know.
Speaker A:All right, all right, all right.
Speaker A:Let me get a little drink here.
Speaker A:But I think we've given some people some really good practical examples as, as well as things to think about, you know, that happen in their own lives all the time.
Speaker A:Because it certainly happens in ours all the time.
Speaker A:All right, here we go.
Speaker A:All right, welcome back to the Wise Guys where we are talking about throwing the card and we've given some examples of that.
Speaker A:We've talked about some ways that it's done and maybe we'll finish up with a few of those still in a more categorical way.
Speaker A:Maybe not as specific, but I think we talked about this a little bit in the beginning.
Speaker A:Terms like we, we like to use these terms.
Speaker A:All always.
Speaker A:Every.
Speaker A:They always.
Speaker C:Everybody's saying that.
Speaker C:Everybody knows that categorically.
Speaker A:It's all.
Speaker A:And so why would you want to dispute what everybody else is saying or thinking?
Speaker C:I mean it's plain common sense.
Speaker A:You know, what's your problem?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker C:Oh, there's a good card.
Speaker C:What's your problem?
Speaker B:You know, these are all sounding like insults to me.
Speaker B:I don't know if that's the intent, but that's how they sound.
Speaker C:Well, is a wall is a card and it could be an.
Speaker A:Insults.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Shut down the intimacy.
Speaker B:Insulting.
Speaker B:Like my intelligence or my emotional.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:You know, my emotional intelligence.
Speaker C:You're short sightedness.
Speaker A:No, I think it is.
Speaker A:And people don't even realize they're doing it.
Speaker A:I mean it's not like they're trying to insult somebody or anything like that.
Speaker A:But what they really are doing is exactly.
Speaker A:That is they are diminishing.
Speaker A:I won't even go so maybe so far, say demeaning, because it's not that they're not trying to, but that's the.
Speaker C:Way it comes across.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:I mean, I've heard things, you know, with the.
Speaker C:The conversations going around the country these days.
Speaker C:I just cannot see how anybody could think that way.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Or I cannot fathom how you came to that conclusion.
Speaker C:That is just completely shutting down any growth or possibility.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:Well, and we also do it through.
Speaker A:Through conspiracy theories.
Speaker A:And that's way more than just, say, a political thing.
Speaker A:I'm not even gonna.
Speaker A:That's not what.
Speaker A:Exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker A:I'm talking about when you look at certain scenarios in the culture or even in a family or wherever it might be, when you pull out little snippets of truth.
Speaker A:Little snippets.
Speaker A:Just stuff that.
Speaker A:Yes, that's.
Speaker A:I get that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And yet we wrap it up into this bigger conspiracy thing, and then we go on social all sorts.
Speaker A:And now you wrap it into.
Speaker A:Up to the.
Speaker A:Into the unknown.
Speaker A:And now who's going to argue with what?
Speaker A:You don't know?
Speaker A:Well, I guess it's possible.
Speaker A:Boy, I never thought about.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:Golly.
Speaker C:So many conversations have been turned into court cases.
Speaker C:And you know that moment when we're having a conversation, we're talking about things, and all of a sudden, I'm a lawyer now, proving my case to prove you wrong or guilty or whatever it might be.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:That's that moment you got to catch yourself, and.
Speaker C:And you got to be aware.
Speaker C:Why is somebody doing it?
Speaker C:See, this is what I want to do is when I catch somebody, I hear words or I feel something.
Speaker C:Why are they doing that?
Speaker C:Let me have compassion to go.
Speaker C:They're afraid.
Speaker C:So then I have to not just adjust myself, but adjust how I'm responding to that.
Speaker C:And I can see that when a card's being played, you can actually have somebody pick it up if you were kind and gentle in how you respond to it.
Speaker C:But the reality is what we do, it's like lawyers in a court case.
Speaker C:You play your card.
Speaker C:Now I play my card, and I've got your evidence and my evidence, and we're just in a battle and nothing happens except war.
Speaker A:Well, and.
Speaker A:And again, it's a zero sum game.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker A:You know, then somebody's got to win, and somebody's got to lose.
Speaker C:I'd say everybody loses in that moment.
Speaker B:All I got to say to that is I object.
Speaker B:I objected.
Speaker B:It's nonsense.
Speaker B:Is that.
Speaker C:Is that a card?
Speaker C:I played the objection card.
Speaker A:I think you just threw the car.
Speaker A:See, there's an example.
Speaker A:There it is right there.
Speaker A:All right, so again, we do.
Speaker C:It is not sustained by the way.
Speaker B:Way you became the judge.
Speaker B:What happened?
Speaker C:Yes, I did.
Speaker C:I'm not playing the judge card.
Speaker C:Order in a court.
Speaker A:Order in a court.
Speaker A:Here.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Holy, holy cow.
Speaker A:But we do this.
Speaker A:We're just giving you some examples.
Speaker A:Use it in your own life, however it might be applicable, or pay attention to it when it happens to you and do better when it comes to how you're going to react.
Speaker C:That's what I want to get to.
Speaker B:So how do we do.
Speaker B:How do you respond?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So how can you respond to.
Speaker B:This is kind of where we're heading.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:And one thing I'm thinking in this regard is you've got to decide if you're trying to persuade.
Speaker B:And this is like an easy way out, in my opinion.
Speaker B:You don't have to do any work to persuade.
Speaker B:Because if you're throwing the God card and you're talking to somebody that believes in God, it's a Christian.
Speaker B:It's like, you can't question it, but so it makes it an easy.
Speaker B:It's easy for you.
Speaker B:You don't have to persuade.
Speaker B:Persuade them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, so that's one I like to say.
Speaker C:God didn't cc me on that email.
Speaker C:I don't get the same message he did.
Speaker A:He's communicating differently with me than he is with you.
Speaker A:Huh.
Speaker B:So, I mean, I guess a way to respond is to.
Speaker B:Is to try to understand if that's what they're trying to do.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, are they trying to persuade you and, you know, you might be able to bring down their defenses if you say something like this, like, well, you know, maybe you're right.
Speaker B:Like, let me hear more.
Speaker B:Like, I'm personally not afraid to do that, even if I, if I, you know, strongly believed something different.
Speaker B:I'm like, you know what?
Speaker B:Let me hear what you have to say.
Speaker C:Well, you know, what's something we do at this table almost every week is.
Speaker C:I never thought about it that way.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I love being able to say that because I know I'm about to learn something either mostly about me, but, you know, there might be some new information I don't have.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:That I'm about to get.
Speaker A:That's what we're all about, isn't it?
Speaker A:I mean, this is what we encourage all the time.
Speaker A:And it, it's Not a sign of weakness, sickness.
Speaker A:It's not a sign of unintelligence or ignorance.
Speaker A:It's a willingness to enter in and learn something new that you can certainly reject.
Speaker A:No, sorry, not going there.
Speaker B:And I think that debating is healthy.
Speaker B:To me, it's not like you don't want to debate people.
Speaker B:I mean, you can do that, but to me, you got to do it with kindness.
Speaker B:So if somebody has a strong opinion about whatever they're saying and they're throwing some kind of card down, you might.
Speaker B:And you don't agree.
Speaker B:Like a way to kind of diffuse their.
Speaker B:The energy they have behind it might be to say this like, well, let me think about it.
Speaker B:Let me think about that, you know, and see, you know, see, even if you.
Speaker B:Even if you disagree, it's not like, say, well, look, I disagree, you know, and then you start, you know, butting heads, maybe you say, hey, let me think about it.
Speaker B:And then they.
Speaker B:To them, it's like, okay, they're giving it some thought.
Speaker B:Let's see what happens.
Speaker C:I'd like to go even a step further and say, you know, I'm going to think about that.
Speaker C:I'd like to continue this conversation because I'd like to think about it can be used as a card.
Speaker C:I'm just shutting it out.
Speaker A:That's what I do.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:I'm willing to think about it, but I need to contemplate a little bit before I go any further.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I think we do.
Speaker A:As I was reading these, I was kind of thinking the same thing that I didn't think about when I.
Speaker A:When I kind of put some of these points down that you got to be careful you don't treat these as cards.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That shut down the conversation.
Speaker A:That has to be done with a graciousness, I think is what you were saying.
Speaker C:Think about it.
Speaker B:That's how I'm seeing.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, that's how I'm seeing it.
Speaker B:I'm seeing it, like, being kind in the conversation.
Speaker B:Because why not?
Speaker B:I mean, why not?
Speaker B:I mean, why not be kind?
Speaker B:So, you know, like, if you disagree and you want to try to get them to understand what they're saying or see it differently, and this isn't.
Speaker B:I know I can.
Speaker B:I'm hearing it in my head that this almost sounds like manipulation.
Speaker B:This is not my intent.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But maybe you say something like, let me make sure I understand what you're saying to get them to, like, re.
Speaker B:Explain it.
Speaker B:Because I know when I've done that, like when someone's asked me hey, can you just explain it?
Speaker B:And I start explaining it, and I'm like, oh, man, I just said that out.
Speaker B:I said that out loud.
Speaker B:And now I'm hearing it differently.
Speaker B:That's not really what I mean.
Speaker B:You know, like, you start to.
Speaker B:It start.
Speaker B:You start to realize it when you say it out loud.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Does that make sense?
Speaker A:I mean, absolutely.
Speaker C:You know, something, A tool that I've used is if I can have a genuine, sincere gratitude that somebody trusted me enough to just share their opinion, I don't have to agree, but I can go, thank you for what you had to say.
Speaker C:Thank you for sharing your heart.
Speaker C:Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Speaker C:They don't have to know.
Speaker C:I don't agree, but I am sincerely grateful that they felt safe and secure enough in our relationship to say something that they know I might disagree with.
Speaker C:That creates a sense of safety when it gets to a deeper place.
Speaker C:Gratitude will get us to a better place.
Speaker A:Well, I think that's a great point, because now we're talking about attitudes of the heart that need to just sort of spill out.
Speaker A:They become part of who we are.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So we.
Speaker A:There's maybe some techniques here, and there's some things we can say and things we can do, which is all true and it's all good.
Speaker A:At the same time.
Speaker A:We talk about this all the time.
Speaker A:You know, it's become becoming the kinds of individuals that when we get in these situations, we just respond graciously, that we try not to throw cards to end, you know, to.
Speaker A:To.
Speaker A:To make it uncomfortable for somebody else.
Speaker C:I always have to be conscious.
Speaker C:Am I reacting from my ego, my mind in my head, or am I responding from a sincere desire for a deeper intimacy with this person?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:And you ask yourself that.
Speaker C:Always ask that question before you say anything.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:No, I.
Speaker A:I think that's really, really a great point.
Speaker C:And sometimes, I'll be honest, I know I'm just going to react from my ego.
Speaker C:That's stupid, you know, and then I think better and go, I'm sorry.
Speaker C:Please forgive me.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker B:Well, the only way to get better at this, guys, is to.
Speaker B:Is to practice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and I say this quite a bit on the podcast, but you have to practice being in these conversations.
Speaker B:And, you know, of course, if you're not used to it, it might feel confronting, you might feel nervous.
Speaker B:But I mean, these.
Speaker B:Some of these ways we're talking of responding come from a kind place, and it's not going to, I don't think, elicit Like a beat down.
Speaker B:Like a verbal beat down, you know, because those are hard to be in sometimes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So can I respond to the person when I feel there's a card being played with compassion as opposed to judgment?
Speaker C:That's the hardest.
Speaker B:Yes, you can.
Speaker C:I absolutely can.
Speaker C:And I've seen it.
Speaker C:And what happens is there's a softening, and you both get to a place that you could not have gotten to had you just judgmental.
Speaker C:You're throwing a card.
Speaker C:It's ridiculous.
Speaker C:You're gaslighting me.
Speaker C:We're done.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Well, well.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the other thing is you're helping them to do it better because they're throwing a card because maybe they.
Speaker B:They haven't heard this episode yet.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And they don't know how to do it any different.
Speaker A:Share this with all your friends, will you, please?
Speaker A:Because I know you guys don't need it, but your friends do.
Speaker A:All right?
Speaker A:We know this already.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker C:And the.
Speaker C:The other.
Speaker C:The other component.
Speaker C:I know we're getting close to the end here, is that when I have recognized, I've walked away from a conversation and I played a card of one sword or another, put up a wall, and I recognize it.
Speaker C:I've made it a habit.
Speaker C:I need to call that guy, call that person and say, you know what?
Speaker C:That wasn't.
Speaker C:That wasn't the way I wanted to react.
Speaker C:I apologize.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Forgive me.
Speaker C:I really want to hear what you have to say.
Speaker C:That takes courage and guts and strength, but it's what's needed for this world to ever heal the divides that we're in.
Speaker A:All right?
Speaker A:I've done that before, and probably I haven't done it when I needed to, so.
Speaker A:That's good advice, Ref.
Speaker A:I think it's great.
Speaker A:And, you know, the last thing in all of this, I think, is we're talking conversations.
Speaker A:We're talking about uncomfortableness.
Speaker A:We're talking about navigating all of the protection that we want to put up against our ego and whatever it might be.
Speaker A:Sometimes you just got to say, we're done.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:You know, this conversation, it's just done.
Speaker A:You know, we're over.
Speaker A:There's really no more that we can say in this particular situation.
Speaker A:And so now it's that practice, it's that learning that Stu's talk about to just say, we're done, and do it out of respect and love for the other person and not let something continue to roll down a hill that just doesn't need to.
Speaker A:You're just not getting anywhere.
Speaker A:Nothing's happening.
Speaker A:Constructive.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:It's just time, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Don't feel like you got to stay in it as long as they're gonna stay in it, you know, kind of thing.
Speaker A:Because really, a lot of times more harm can come than good when you get to that point.
Speaker A:Because a lot of times you get angry.
Speaker A:Everybody's getting defensive by that point, and.
Speaker C:Then people get hurt.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So it's the bell, it's the 15th round, we're done, we're complete.
Speaker C:It's the end of the debate.
Speaker C:The fight, the argument, the conversation.
Speaker C:It's not going anywhere productive.
Speaker C:Have come to that.
Speaker A:I gotta learn to do that better myself.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, well, would it be okay with you guys if we follow up on this after I've had a chance to think about it?
Speaker B:That's how you, that's.
Speaker B:I just gave you the phrase to say that's how you get out of it in a kind, loving way.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker B:Showing respect.
Speaker A:There's a great example.
Speaker A:So, so there you go, man.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:This is exactly what we need to learn to do better.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And that's, that's what we're all about.
Speaker A:That's the fun stuff.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Doing it just a little bit better.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:All right, so as we challenge you, and we hope you can handle the truth, okay?
Speaker A:But your ongoing mission that we always love to challenge you with, should you choose to accept it, okay.
Speaker A:And that is decide to go rogue.
Speaker A:All right?
Speaker A:And that just means decide to just think differently, right?
Speaker A:Just decide to go off the reservation from your norm, all right?
Speaker A:And then it's find some like minded people that are willing to do the same thing.
Speaker A:They're out there.
Speaker A:I guarantee you they're out there.
Speaker A:You just got to get your antennas up.
Speaker A:You got to go looking for them, and then they will, you will attract them.
Speaker A:It's beautiful when you can do it together.
Speaker A:Then you got to strap on the armor, we say.
Speaker A:And again, what we mean by that is we talk about this every week.
Speaker A:You got to ground yourself in your truth, all right?
Speaker A:It doesn't mean you're, you know, you're, you're inflexible.
Speaker A:It just means that you can't get blown around like the wind.
Speaker A:You got to protect that.
Speaker A:You've got to protect yourself.
Speaker A:And then once you're in that place, you storm the gates.
Speaker A:You storm the gates of apathy and indecision and ignorance.
Speaker A:And again, that, that, that's.
Speaker A:Use that in the proper way.
Speaker A:But you want.
Speaker A:Try to get people, you want to share what's good for you, Right.
Speaker A:And if it's good for you, you gotta believe it's good for them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so you gotta get them to open up their mind.
Speaker A:And then lastly in.
Speaker C:You've gotta get yourself to open your mind.
Speaker A:Ah, yes, that's right.
Speaker A:It's about you.
Speaker C:Otherwise it's starting to sound like a God card there.
Speaker A:Yeah, there it is.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right, I'll agree with that.
Speaker A:All right, very cool.
Speaker A:And then we just unleash the unthinkable.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So it.
Speaker A:All of this stuff, a lot of time is unthinkable when you hear it for the first time.
Speaker A:Time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So we want to encourage you in that.
Speaker A:We want to thank you for listening, guys.
Speaker A:Thank you as always, man.
Speaker B:I appreciate it.
Speaker A:I think it was awesome.
Speaker A:As always.
Speaker A:I think we've given you guys some really good tips and perspectives and stories.
Speaker C:And then I'll call you in 15 minutes and apologize.
Speaker C:That's right.
Speaker A:I just don't know.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I just don't know.
Speaker A:So check us out next week.
Speaker A:Tell all your friends about us and we'll unleash another unthinkable conversation.
Speaker A:You next week.
Speaker A:Thanks again.
